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| I am getting older and so I've been taking beginner classes in order to do milder asanas. I just wanted to share my experience. I've been regularly taking beginner classes (even though I'm not really a beginner) and the teacher is very young and athletic. There is nothing wrong with that I guess, but her class is too challenging for most beginners. She has us do very intense asanas like plank and downward dog and my arms feel like they are about to give out. I have to spend so much wasted time in child's pose just so that I don't sweat buckets and/or injure myself. I would prefer an older instructor who knows that beginners shouldn't be doing plank for so long, but we don't get much of a choice in instructors around here unfortunately.
So this morning during class I walked in and I told her that I hoped her class would be better so that I wouldn't have to be in child's pose for half the class. She pretty much just ignored me and then proceded to teach another intermediate level class. She had us do triangle and some other pose with a mudra and I don't even know what she was doing with her fingers, but everyone in the class was confused. She tells us that we can take less intense versions of poses or rest in child's pose, but I shouldn't have to do that. The class should be for beginners and we shouldn't have to modify everything. One woman in the class just had foot surgery and the instructor has us all come into a lunge...What could she possibly be thinking? I'm considering sending an e-mail to her boss with a complaint. There are too many unqualified instructors out there and being a part-time instructor myself I know how to judge. |
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| Wow shalamOM,
I just finished my 4th yoga class ever and your experience sounds exactly like the third class I took last Friday! The teacher was young and athletic and had us do the downward dog and plank over and over again! And she had the class do a lot of lunges as well as jumping back and forth with feet together while in a lunge position!
The class I attended was a Level I class. The description for Level I says the class is designed to welcome and support those new to yoga and to create a supportive atmosphere to continue a regular yoga practice.
I am new to yoga so I don't have any advice for you, but it certainly sounds similar to my experience. I spoke to my instructor today about my experience on Friday and she told me that sometimes we need to advocate for ourselves. |
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| Just a thought: why does having to do a modification of an asana bother you?
I think of it this way: just because someone is new to yoga doesn't mean that they are out of condition; it merely means that they are new to yoga.
What is wrong with: ok, in plank, some have the option to use their knees?
Is there some "shame" in having to modify?
What is wrong with sweating? I see that as a good thing.
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| Ollie, your point is good about not being ashamed to modify. But I think if the students are having to modify most of the asanas, then maybe the teacher needs to reevaluate her approach, or the studio needs to choose a better fit for the class.
Beginners aren't as aware of their own limitations and might be more prone to injury; therefore it's imperative that the instructor be mindful. I too have been in classes labelled "basic" that were taught by instructors who seemed like their intention was to demonstrate how beautifully they could "perform." These instructors should either reexamine their reasons for teaching or they should ask their studios to place them in vinyasa classes rather than basic. As for the OP, maybe you should try to talk to your instructor after class instead of before? Before, she might have already mentally planned (though a good teacher should be able to make adjustments). After she might be more open to feedback, especially if it's not phrased in terms of value judgments but just observations that the class seems a bit too challenging for most students.
I was trained in vinyasa and so my personal practice tends to be vigorous. One of the most amazing classes I ever taught was a basic-level class. I was working with a mixture of intermediate, beginning and students with injuries. It was challenging to design a class that met the needs of everyone, and I usually erred on the side of caution, figuring that the more advanced students could add a chaturanga or stay in down dog longer when I led the class into child. It was wonderful to work with so much variety! Ultimately, what's the point of yoga if everyone in the room looks like they should be on the cover of YJ? |
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| l Ultimately, what's the point of yoga if everyone in the room looks like they should be on the cover of YJ?
What is the point of yoga if one can do everything perfectly from day one?
I stepped into my first yoga class back in 2003 (4 years ago? wow!) and if everything would have been easy to do, I wouldn't have gone back
I WANTED to be challenged; I wanted my body to get stronger (in different ways) and more limber. |
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Location: Upstate NY | Kudos Ollie I couldn't of said it better |
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| Are you guys serious? I really don't think this has anything to do with the OP not wanting to challenge herself, and much more to do with an instructor who might not have her priorities in order. A good instructor can absolutely challenge a beginning-level class without making them feel so overwhelmed and like yoga is a completely insurmountable activity for them. In my teacher training (and this is applicable to all new skill sets, not just yoga) we talked about how there's an optimal balance between challenge and mastery where a student feels like there's room to grow but not that the challenge is so great that it can't ever be achieved. Of course there's no such thing as "mastering" yoga, but in our western society, when a quantifiable, tangible class is labelled "beginner," it should not ask of its students that they're moving their bodies beyond physical limitations.
This also begs another question: what if this student in question doesn't want a physical challenge, but instead a mental or spiritual one? |
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Expert Yogi
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| My classes include everything from older out-of-shape beginners with injuries to people who really could be on the cover of YJ and are both very flexible and very strong. My goal with every class is to teach to the majority and give modifications to both the beginners and the advanced students. Some classes are all more advanced students (and I give them a real vigorous class with lots of challanging poses) and some have a lot of beginners (so we do easier poses and fewer of them but the more advanced students can do advanced versions and they hold them longer). If a teacher isn't aware of what is going on with their students, they are not a teacher but only an asana sequence leader. My classes are for my students, not for me. My private practice is for me. |
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| In my training we were taught to teach to the "high middle", but I personally have trouble understanding what that is many times. Especially if the class only has three students attending, one is a rank beginner, the second an experienced beginner and the third a highly-adept and physically fit individual, seeing him/herself as advanced and wanting a really deep and sweat-inducing workout. I've had this demographic several times now in the few months I've been teaching (at a gym). The high middle would be way above what the rank beginner could handle, in that he/she wouldn't even know what child's pose is, let alone understand the difference between plank and downward dog (both poses tend to look like the transition between the two). It's very challenging to try to offer a meaningful experience to all the students in that sort of class, especially when I'm aware of their expectations. I do understand that that's my yoga, my awareness of their expectations affecting me as the teacher, so as I said, it's challenging all around. It is all about expectations, isn't it? A class wouldn't ever be felt as disappointing if there weren't expectations clouding the experience. Something to ponder a bit more, I think. |
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Location: Upstate NY | libragirl - 2007-09-29 10:01 PM Are you guys serious? I really don't think this has anything to do with the OP not wanting to challenge herself, and much more to do with an instructor who might not have her priorities in order. A good instructor can absolutely challenge a beginning-level class without making them feel so overwhelmed and like yoga is a completely insurmountable activity for them. In my teacher training (and this is applicable to all new skill sets, not just yoga) we talked about how there's an optimal balance between challenge and mastery where a student feels like there's room to grow but not that the challenge is so great that it can't ever be achieved. Of course there's no such thing as "mastering" yoga, but in our western society, when a quantifiable, tangible class is labelled "beginner," it should not ask of its students that they're moving their bodies beyond physical limitations. This also begs another question: what if this student in question doesn't want a physical challenge, but instead a mental or spiritual one? Very serious, I don't consider Plank and Downward Dog advanced poses but beginner poses....... granted there is a series of awareness that one gathers as they can go deeper into the poses but do anything less I would consider "Chair Yoga" (nothing wrong with that either. |
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| I don't qualify as an absolute beginner any more, I've been practicing yoga for about a year now, first with DVDs and now 9 months of ashtanga with dedication and education, but I still occasionally attend beginner level classes as I feel I can still learn from going back to the basics, and because once in a while the teacher will introduce interesting modifications or preparatory poses for primary series poses that I can use in my personal practice...
Anyways, there is one teacher at my studio whose class is labelled beginner, but it's an absolute misnomer. His class is MUCH harder than another teachers Level 2 class. I find it to be a challenge, so I can't imagine what first timers and real beginners must be feeling. In some ways, it actually makes me uncomfortable to go, because he leads us into postures that literally no one can do at all and I'm the only one there doing it... Like yesterday, he had us (uh, me I guess) do the full kurmasana sequence (kurmasana - supta kurmasana - dwi pada sirsasana - tittibhasana - bakasana - chatturanga dhandasana) and I felt like I was putting on a show amidst the horrified gasps of the crowd. It was rather embarassing, I don't attend these classes to show off, and I don't want to come off that way.
I brought it up with this teacher once after a class, as I told him I felt that his beginner classes were very tough. Essentially, he feels that he offers a challenge with modifications. And he isn't wrong, I've attended the "easiest" beginner classes with the other teacher too, and though they are less challenging, they also include less guidance that what this "tough" teacher offers. He takes the time to clearly explain the poses, instruct the students on the beginner variations, props to assist them, demonstrating more advanced variations. He then goes to each student who is having a hard time understanding and gives them individual attention and guidance, going over every step with them and adjusting them into the pose. He is always aware of who is there for the first time, and gives them the help they need. Basically, he shows them what ashtanga is, and what they can expect it to look like if they dedicate themselves to their practice, and how they can begin to work towards that. His style of teaching isn't so maladapted to the "type" of student that crowds my studio either, it's in the downtown core, close to major colleges and universities, and basically only young healthy bodies are in attendance.
I guess the moral of the story is that each instructor will have their idea of what a beginner class should be like, and that the best approach would be to discuss what you are seeking with your prospective teacher, and see if there is a fit between their approach and your needs. ShalamOM, you mention poses like plank and downward dog, lunges and triangle as being too challenging for beginners, but in my mind, they are basic, fundamental poses to most styles of yoga. I do wonder what a beginner class would consist of if you had to remove all poses that might induce a muscle contraction or produce a sweat bead. Perhaps the better fit for someone who is looking to avoid this is restorative yoga?
sp
Edited by slowpie6 2007-09-30 11:38 AM
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Expert Yogi
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|  Great to see you sp!
One of the things about Iyengar yoga is that we work with syllabi. Kurmasana cycle will never be taught in my beginner's classes, period. Which is good, because I would break body parts trying to teach it...  So while you can get an Iyengar beginner class that is faster paced or with longer holds, there is a general standard that you can expect pretty much worldwide. Down dog and triangle are Level I poses, as is a lunge in vira I. Plank is level II, leading to chaturanga. |
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| Hi tourist, nice to see you too! Been very busy but I hope that it will taper off soon so I can be here without feeling guilty for procrastinating...
When I suggested restorative yoga as an alternative, it dawned on me to suggest Iyengar too, because of the "rigid" progression in the levels as you describe. From my extremely limited experience with Iyengar (1 level one class), it was very basic, but it wasn't "easy". Holding virabhadrasana 1 is by no means a walk in the park.
When I think of this post, I just keep wondering why one would expect yoga to be easy... My understanding of the "philosophy" of asana practice, if you will, is still that of a beginner, but I thought that regardless of the student's level, yoga should always be a challenge. It should not injure, but it should not be easy. As my senior teacher often says in his beginner classes, when having students do straining postures like holding chatturanga or something, "yoga is hard at first, then it gets easier, then it gets harder". There is no "end" to practice when everything becomes easy, even a pose such as tadasana should always present a degree of challenge as you "peel the onion" and get deeper into the practice and fine-tune things. Whenever I find that a pose suddenly stops posing a challenge for me, I seek guidance from my teachers, because I know that it means I'm either not doing something right or there is something more I should be working on. And invariably, there is.
sp |
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Expert Yogi
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| slowpie6 - 2007-09-30 9:14 AM
When I think of this post, I just keep wondering why one would expect yoga to be easy...
 I KNOW!! |
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| tourist - 2007-09-30 7:27 PM
slowpie6 - 2007-09-30 9:14 AM
When I think of this post, I just keep wondering why one would expect yoga to be easy...
I KNOW!!
Why? Well, ok, here comes some bluntness, but if you saw some of the people in our local classes, both the students and some of the teachers, well, you wouldn't expect it to be hard.
I hasten to point out that just the opposite was the case at some of the classes that I've been to (The Yoga-Yoga Ashtanga class, the Bikram Yoga classes, one of the classes that my teacher and I drove to), |
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Expert Yogi
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| ollie - I do understand that. People who know of yoga from the 60's might expect it to be very gentle, slow and ideal for very elderly people. We had a teacher here who taught well into her 80's and she did that style. And it is valid in it's own way. It is the people who come to class for "exercise" and then complain it is "too hard" that make me wonder... |
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| Just because a yoga class is slow and gentle doesn't mean it is for elderly people! All yoga classes should be slow and gentle otherwise you might as well just go to an aerobics class. You can exercise the body mindfully with slow, controlled and deliberate movements...It is unnecessary to hop around or move into contortionist positions that induce strain. Instructors who choose to teach the new fangled style of yoga are just fooling themselves and others into believing that they are so spiritual. They are nothing more than simple calisthenic/stretch instructors with the need for to boost what they do by calling it spiritual...Ironically, because they are egotistical. I'd rather go to a simple exercise teacher for that..
Sorry for the rant. |
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| Interesting (and wise) comments. |
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| Thanks!! |
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| Last week I visited a friend in L.A. who has become very deeply involved in yoga at his gym. I had never done yoga before, and find all the Sanskrit terminology daunting. I have zero flexibility, balance, endurance, strength or coordination -- struggled to get D's in Phys Ed all through school. My friend, who is a highly accomplished athlete and does everything perfectly on the first try, basically challenged me, saying that his instructor gave the most easy-going, nurturing, supportive, non-judgmental class in L.A., perfect for absolute beginners, and that anyone at any level of fitness could do the class. He told me that my preconceptions that yoga was only for perfect physical specimens were wrong.
So, I showed up, full of trepidation. At the beginning we were supposed to meditate briefly on our intention for the class. Mine was to survive without being hauled out on a stretcher. Then the boot camp began. It had me hyperventilating within the first two minutes. The teacher would say, "now, on the iiinhaaaaaale" and I had already panted 20 times. Any body part that he said was "lengthening and relaxing" was in intense pain. All of the violent twisting of the spine injured my back to the point where I had to visit my chiropractor when I got back to New York. Fortunately, my chiro was able to get me back in alignment. There was something called "child's pose" that you were supposed to do if there was a contortion that was too hard to do, but I couldn't do that because my knees weren't flexible enough, so I just toughed it out and did everything badly, not wanting to be labeled a failure. Oh, there was one thing I could actually do: the "corpse pose" at the end.
My point is that yoga people like my friend can get awfully "evangelical", and can't conceive of people with average bodies who just plain can't do it. And I'm completely mystified when people say they do yoga for stress reduction - it sure increased my stress!
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| shalamOM, You start your "rant" by basically saying anyone can benefit from a yoga class that is slow and gentle--I absolutely agree. We sometimes have to change our mindset if we are used to a much different style but it can be a true learning experience if we can let go of our preconceptions. With that said, I don't understand why in your next line you say "all yoga classes should be slow and gentle otherwise you might as well go to an aerobic class." It amazes me that a website that you would think would attract open minded people seems to attract a lot of people who know the one and only way to do yoga! I am interested to hear your comparison between an aerobic step class and an intense ashtanga or power class. Do you really see no difference? I don't think most people would describe Bikram Yoga as gentle so I guess that makes me an egotistical, non-spiritual, gym teacher needing a "boost." Good to know there are "Veteran" posters here always willing to set us heretics straight.
heretic(her.i.tik) A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who dissents from the officially accepted dogma. |
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| shalamOM;
I feel your pain, albeit I acknowledge and deeply respect the thoughtful guidance you have received from others who are more advanced in their yoga journey. Much diligence and wisdom is manifested in their succinct dissertations on styles that adhere to a structured progression in their levels.
Take heart in knowing that your noted concerns about plank and downward dog are extremely common in novice students. Seems that the wrists are known weak links that require time, practice and patience to condition. The short answer? “Practice and all is coming” K. Pattabhi Jois
That said, I suspect that you would be an ideal candidate for Anusara (an Iyengar derivative) Yoga. Please do consider trying a sample Anusara class since John Friend’s warm and heart centered structured approach may indeed be in perfect harmony with your current purported perceived needs.
I speak with the authority of two years study under the skillful guidance of Anusara instructors, one world class I might add. The Anusara environment is very nurturing, yet remains a challenge for those who wish to embrace the more advanced expressions of the postures.
Please do consider taking ownership of your practice though; yoga is not one-on-one physical therapy. Consider being present at every moment in your practice, yoga it is about body awareness not about strength and flexibility. Honor your own level of attainment each and every day, yoga is a slow process thus you may be best served by abandoning notions about where you think you need to be in class and embrace the beauty and grace of where you actually are today.
I trust you find the venue you seek in a timely manner… And more importantly find a path that brings you joy; wellness and spiritual fulfillment. As for myself, I am deeply grateful for wealth of knowledge I gleaned from Anusara. However now I have moved on to Bikram since it has become a more appropriate complement for my journey’s practice at this point.
Namaste; Thomas
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| some people may benefit from fast paced yoga in the sense that it will exhaust their body and then relax the mind. SOme people may need slow paced yoga, some people may need medium pacedd yoga. Some people may start yoga with a fast paced instructor and that is what they need at the beginning, then a year later they may need a medium pace, then a few years later they may need a slow pace.
When I judge others i need to stop and think " My process of evolution may not be the same as cyndi's, shalams, toursists, neels, etc... process of evolution. I cannot judge which process as superior, I can only hope that where others are is where they need to be and where I am is where I need to be."
Shalam, that class seems not to be for you, judging by the words you wrote, but please do not assume that what you need is what we all need, Just as I should not assume what I need is what you need.
Maybe life is perfect the way it is right now, maybe that class is perfect
the jouney to ithacas continues
seeker
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disappointing class
