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| Tried posting before but wasn't successful, so here goes again. I am new to Dahn yoga; signed up two months ago in NYC. I like the classes and enjoy the work out sessions. To me it beats going to the gym which I find totally boring. However, after reading all the negative comments, I am starting to be concerned that behind it all lurks an organization that has ulterior motives. So anyone out there who can vouch for this Dahn yoga? I am curious ...  |
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| I can't vouch for it, as you can see from my other posts.
I just wanted to let you know that Dahn Yoga is not actually yoga, i.e. it is nothing like Indian Yoga, with asanas desribed in other sections of this web site etc.
Dahn Yoga is closer to Chinese Qi-gong, it involves stretching meridian channles , activating accupresure points and making energy flow.
You will never hear about accupressure and meridian channels in Indian Yoga.
In Indian Yoga you will hear about chakras and kundalini.
Dahn yoga, for some reason, cares only about 2 chakras, - 2nd and 4th, and most of the excerices are targted towards better developing 2nd chakra.
I personally like Dahn excercises.
But my problem is, why do they call them Yoga, when they are not and mislead people?
Edited by light30 2005-08-24 10:34 AM
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| Here is an important resource for your research: www.newdahn.com/usa Also, do a Google search on dahn and cult, for more sources. Most revealing is that a healthy woman died in master "healer" training two years ago, allegedly due to dahn routinely using the pain of overexertion plus dehydration to foster a sense of mastery of mind over body and "enlightenment." Dahn is being sued for $84 million now. Best of luck in your research. |
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Expert Yogi
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I personally like Dahn excercises.
But my problem is, why do they call them Yoga, when they are not and mislead people?
Light - simple explanation there - yoga is trendy. If this was the 80's they would have called it aerobics. |
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| I will gladly vouch for Dahn Yoga. I joined 6 moths ago and have received tremendous benefit from the program. Prior to finding out about Dahn yoga I was on a quest to find a solution to a chronic health condition that had put me in bed for 3 years. I tried various forms of other yoga, acupuncture, various diets, vitamins, magnets, western medication, energy healers, and on and on. After 3 months of practicing Dahn yoga, I was no longer sleeping 16 hours a day, in fact I was attending two classes a day. These exercises are unique and healing. They certainly are not the “traditional” style of yoga, however Dahn does mean energy, and this group thoroughly understands energy and the human body. Since I started practicing I have seen many people come into the center with various health issues, all who practiced at least 3 times a week improved dramatically.
I attended the 21 day intensive Healers School in Sedona, Arizona last August. Guess what, when the 21 days were up, I returned home to my family. In fact this group promotes restoring the family unit back to health. I am a single mom, and my children really had a rough go of it while they watched their mom sleep for 3 years. Upon my arrival home I have been able to help heal them. Our family is getting healthier and happier all the time.
Of course the Dahn Master’s encourage members to expand their training experiences through workshops that are generally offered outside an individual center, but I’ve never heard anyone of them not accept “no” for an answer. The workshops are also beneficial and informative, and employ no “brainwashing techniques” in any way.
I don’t know exactly how the “natter” got going in this forum, but I don’t believe it was founded in any real or objective experience. Some people simply have to act out their drama’s. I would imagine that they have fear around a lot of situations. Don’t worry, you are involved in a good organization, one that promotes healing, and healing occurs not only through the powerful exercises that Dahn Yoga offers, healing also occurs through laughing, hugging, dancing, and smiling, and what is so “cultish” about being happy?
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| I don't think my message posted before, so I will try again
I will gladly vouch for Dahn Yoga. I joined 6 moths ago and have received tremendous benefit from the program. Prior to finding out about Dahn yoga I was on a quest to find a solution to a chronic health condition that had put me in bed for 3 years. I tried various forms of other yoga, acupuncture, various diets, vitamins, magnets, western medication, energy healers, and on and on. After 3 months of practicing Dahn yoga, I was no longer sleeping 16 hours a day, in fact I was attending two classes a day. These exercises are unique and healing. They certainly are not the “traditional” style of yoga, however Dahn does mean energy, and this group thoroughly understands energy and the human body. Since I started practicing I have seen many people come into the center with various health issues, all who practiced at least 3 times a week improved dramatically.
I attended the 21 day intensive Healers School in Sedona, Arizona last August. Guess what, when the 21 days were up, I returned home to my family. In fact this group promotes restoring the family unit back to health. I am a single mom, and my children really had a rough go of it while they watched their mom sleep for 3 years. Upon my arrival home I have been able to help heal them. Our family is getting healthier and happier all the time.
Of course the Dahn Master’s encourage members to expand their training experiences through workshops that are generally offered outside an individual center, but I’ve never heard anyone of them not accept “no” for an answer. The workshops are also beneficial and informative, and employ no “brainwashing techniques” in any way.
I don’t know exactly how the “natter” got going in this forum, but I don’t believe it was founded in any real or objective experience. Some people simply have to act out their drama’s. I would imagine that they have fear around a lot of situations. Don’t worry, you are involved in a good organization, one that promotes healing, and healing occurs not only through the powerful exercises that Dahn Yoga offers, healing also occurs through laughing, hugging, dancing, and smiling, and what is so “cultish” about being happy?
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| fireriver,
I answered your other post.
dahn yoga is a cult. Please do your research before you get hurt. dahn yoga has a very long list of victims. They are being sued for the wrongful death of Julia Siverls.
Don't be a victim of dahn yoga!
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| I don't know if I can vouch for them other than from my own personal experience which I has been wonderful. I have been going almost two years - my wife longer and have gone through a lot of training including the advanced healer class. I am set to go to an intensive dahn mudo training in late may. I have always been turned off by joining groups - never lasted long - yoga, health clubs whatever. I would have to say it is not so much about yoga as many would like. If you want to be able to tell people you know yoga and demonstate it Dahn will fall short - it is not mainstream yoga. But if you are interested as I am in staying healthy, finding alternatives to pharmaceuticals, growing your soul, and developing a daily practice that will give you the tools to adapt to the ever increasing pace of change in our society then I would recommend Dahn highly. It is the best daily transformation practice I know today. It brings together so many elements we need to holistically construct our lives.
I truthfully don't get the cult criticism. It is not cheap but no more expensive than so many things these days. And they do ask a lot of you but not any more than any passionate pursuit. They have never asked me to do anything I didn't know was right for me or given me any undue pressure. The pressure thing I think comes from their passion and their lack of english skills - they may seem blunt because they can't be subltle with the language. I have learned so much about myself in pursuing Dahn. It wasn't always the easiest things to learn, sometimes I wish I hadn't learned them, but overall I am better for learning them.
And this thing about being sued because a lady died. If I ran away from everyone who had ever been sued or every practice wherein someone died I would do nothing with no one. Being sued in America is not a sign of problems it is a sign of dollars - burning brightly in the eyes of those this poor woman left behind.
Of course I am not a master or going through master training. The masters are a tough bunch, just like the Korean people from whence they come. And this is disconcerting for many Americans. The koreans that practice at my center and that I have met understand this. Historically the koreans are a tough people. Personally I like the toughness because I believe it brings me beyond my soft comfortable shell - I now know I can do thinks I never thought I could do and that is a tremendous thing as I get older and face more difficulties. And it is true I am older 55 so maybe they just let me be. I can't speak to how they treat young people.
And yeah I have done "humbling" tasks like clean toilets and wash floors. I know most Americans balk at this stuff - we think that is work for people with darker skins from other countries - and that is exactly why I think it is good for us. In my view nothing human is too humble for a human to do. Someone has to clean the toilets if we want them clean. Again I point to our culture - we think chicken is soft white meat wrapped in cellophane in our grocers counter and toilets just magically get cleaned themselves once a week, usually when our that housecleaner person who can't speak english comes to visit.
And please tell me what entity that enjoys any success these days does have "an organization" that is behind it. If you want to construe that they are lurking or that their motives are ulterior that is so much a matter of interpretation and again of culture. I have had numerous debates with the people at my center about telling Americans the full cost - Americans like to know the full cost. Asians often get accused of "changing" the price or "nickel and diming " you to death. And yes Dahn Koreans are guilty of that too. A Healers School is $3000 yes great and oh yeah there is a registration fee and you have to pay for a caliraphy set if you don't have one and the accomodations (food and housing) are charged extra. This is culture but some take all that so personally "oh they are cheating me, they said 3000".
And ulterior motives are there no doubt - as with any progressive practice. Come in start yoga - daily practice if you will, get healthier, then lets look to your mind, now lets look to your soul. It is a progression. And they are evangelical in the sense they want to "spread the word" and for that they need people. Their motives are to bring you in and push you along and in that sense are "ulterior." But is this something new in the world. You go for free horseback riding lesson or a free winetasting - do you really think that is the whole deal? You don't think if you start horseback riding lessons they won't eventually show you some horses to own and board and if you show interest introduce you to dressage and maybe jumping and then maybe ask you to compete and yes that is all so so expensive. So is horseback riding a cult? |
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| whats the deal?
Almost once a month there is a new post here in relations to dahn....is there a conspiracy going on where you guys are being lead here to spread the word of dahn?
I dunno, to each their own i guess...but from the stuff i have heard it sounds like something that should be avoided....
best of luck |
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio | sideshow - 2006-04-29 5:18 PM
Almost once a month there is a new post here in relations to dahn....is there a conspiracy going on where you guys are being lead here to spread the word of dahn?
It's always the same accounts too, and they never post to any of the other threads. I'm beginning to think it's sock puppet theater in here.  |
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| dagdaman,
I have read Lovelife's response to your other posts, so I won't cover them again. I do take issue with you blaming Julia Siverl's and her family for her death. I do not know if you have read the lawsuit, but dahn was clearly responsible for sending her to her death. It could and should have been prevented.
The cult criticism comes from the fact that all of the masters are worked to exhaustion in servitude to ilchi lee. The 100 or more hours worked per week are for very low pay and no time off. This is each week and every week. I have known several masters who have been severely ill and have been transferred to other schools (especially CGI and Sedona) to heal themselves. Western medicine is out of the question as this will expose the group as a sham. The really sick masters are sent home so the Korean government can assume the cost of caring for them. If they are not healed in a timely manner they are fired.
The whole organization is geared towards making ilchi lee rich. This is evidenced by his many homes and properties. Many thanks to members like you who willingly give thousands of dollars to "grow my soul". Can you even explain what this means? Do I have "bad energy" for even asking? You see, in dahn yoga you are discouraged from asking too many questions. The more questions you ask the more transparent their lies become.
Are their many Korean members in your center? I have friends in the New York area who have told me there are very, very few Korean members practicing these days. They know to stay away from dahn because it is bad news.
Why also are you making cleaning toilets a race issue? Did you ever have a real job? If you did were you asked to clean the floors or toilets for free? I certainly was not because it was not in my job description. Is dahn yoga paying you to clean the toilets? My guess is no because it would cut into their bottom line. ilchi lee needs as much money as possible, this is why he created dahn yoga. In case you are wondering I do not have a maid or butler and I have to clean my own home, toilets included.
When you do bow training in dahn yoga it is for ilchi lee. You are to focus all your thoughts and energy toward lee because "he is the purest form of energy". This certainly sounds like a religion to me. In case you have not noticed, all of the literature is ilchi lee and not the masters. Tha masters are told to let go of their ego, this is because there is not enough room for their ego and ilchi lee's. The whole organization is for the enrichment and glorification of ilchi lee. You made mention of your previous religious experience. I bring this up because you are Christian and to worship lee is a sin.
You can read the many other websites to see why former masters believe he is criminal. He has been accused of rape, forced abortions, violence against former members, money laundering, tax evasion, and green card marriages,etc. Is this a man you want to learn healing from?
Please read the many other websites available before you get hurt. There are plenty of legitimate yoga schools around . dahn yoga is not one of them.
dahn yoga is a dangerous cult.
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| sideshow - 2006-04-29 5:18 PM
whats the deal?
Almost once a month there is a new post here in relations to dahn....is there a conspiracy going on where you guys are being lead here to spread the word of dahn?
I dunno, to each their own i guess...but from the stuff i have heard it sounds like something that should be avoided....
best of luck
Sideshow
Personally I went to Google to look up the address of a center that I had to go to for some training and up popped a reference that led to this site - no conspiracy other than following the link, reading what others have posted and responding.
dagdaman |
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| HealerNoMore
Thanks for an interesting discussion.
I must admit I have had a very different experience than you so that colors my perception. For example I practice at the Glendale center near Los Angeles and probably one-third of the regular members are korean, many of them of long standing.
And the whole thing with Ilchi Lee. He just doesn't figure into the process much at all - at least in my experience. You mention the bowing exercise. You say "When you do bow training in dahn yoga it is for ilchi lee. You are to focus all your thoughts and energy toward lee because 'he is the purest form of energy'." Again this may be something that you were taught but I do bowing everyday, or try to, and I must say I have never brought Ilchi Lee into my thoughts during the bowing. I do it first thing in the morning mainly to get my body loosened up and then meditate for about 15 minutes each morning on my goals and visions. It helps my focus during the day and is a nice way to get going in the morning.
I have read Lee's books which I find interesting - but then I read a lot of books on spirituality, transformation, the brain etc. And sure some members get excited about "seeing" Lee when he comes to town but again this seems very individual. I have been at four events where he showed up and I found him to be quite a simple man with not a lot of pretense, who doesn't appear to take himslef that seriously at all - he is actually very humorous in his delivery style. But no sense of him expecting adoration or anything close.
I must admit I don't "know" many masters on a personal level - that is to even know how much they work or if they are sick or anything like that. Again I admit I am not interested in becoming a master so I may have not been exposed to this level. I am familiar with a few that I have trained under and become close with and they seem pretty happy and fulfilled. But I must admit I don't ask them how much they work or how much money they make or did they leave a family in Korea etc. but then I don't ask those questions of many people at all. I certainly don't see some glazed eyed robots "in servitude to Ilchi Lee." I do see people with a zeal for "spreading Dahn" but that seems well placed given their positions.
And by the way my first real job was cleaning toilets and yes I was paid - but this was not at Dahn - it was for the City of Ventura. I didn't bring race into it. I was referring to the Los Angeles mayor's recent remark in defense of hispanic immigrants that "they clean your toilets" and the fact that this is a common task when one "helps out" at a Dahn center. There is no racial issue there at all at least I have never considered hispanic a race - maybe a national origin issue. I was really just countering some other posts that suggested that being asked to "clean toilets" was demeaning. It is humbling but not demeaning - that was my point - and I for one can use a bit of humbling at times. While we are on the subjects of jobs I have also harvested chives, worked in a sewer plant, dug ditches, and been a struggling actor - now I work as a computer consultant. And no I don't get paid at Dahn. I find it brings peace to my mind to do simple tasks like wiping the floor or cleaning the toilets - at home gardening is the same for me or doing the dishes, or folding laundry.
And I must admit I am not that bothered by Lee owning homes and properties - it seems like a pretty basic thing in the U.S. I was going to say that with the exception of maybe Mother Teresa most people who do good and are successful at it "own" things along the way. But then even Mother Teresa was part of a larger organization, the Catholic Church that owns a lot of properties. Maybe you can think of someone. Someone who does great good or is a spiritual leader or leader of an organization that does good that is without access to some substantial resources.
And yes I can try to explain what "growing my soul" means to me. I would like to know more about your reference points in order to explain it in detail but on a cursory basis I would say simply learning to love what is. (Byron Katie "Loving What Is"). In terms of the Hawkins scale (David Hawkins "Power vs. Force") it is learning to bring my actions to a higher place - if I am acting in anger (150) try to kick my actions up a notch to pride (175) or even courage (200). In terms of people like Anthony DeMello (tapes series on Waking Up) or David Bohm (i.e. "Thought as a System") I try to be aware of how my brain's natural inclination to trick me into seeing perceptions as reality can be used to turn perceptions around. I do a lot with brain work - learning to integrate the functions of the brain (i.e. Jeffrey Schwartz "The Mind and the Brain, Daniel Amen "Healing the Hardware of the Soul"). I recognize the great adaptibilty of the brain in terms of neuroplasticity that Schwartz investigates and Amen shows us with SPECT scans (single positron emission computerized tomography) and try to use the variety of tools to have a well integrated brain. I do daily stretching (in Dahn Do-In) to keep my meridians open and my body structure balanced. I use meditation to open my mind to possibilities. If I had to nutshell it I would say that growing my soul is awakening to the idea that I construct my life - that "do unto others etc" or "what goes around comes around" is not so much an admonition to do good works but a recognition of the fact that all things are connected in cycles.
Please understand that this is just an "off the cuff" attempt at explaining a complex process - it is by no means meant to be exhaustive or complete. It is not so much where I am trying to go as it is more where I have been and knowing that is not enough. And it is entirely the reverse - there is no "bad energy" in asking - I am more than happy to share. You really did have a different Dahn experience than I am having - that is too bad really because Dahn offers so much. It would be interesting to me to know at what center you practiced or what time period. Again I am less than two years into Dahn and truthfully never compared it with "Yoga", Dahn always seemed to be so much more. It incorporated some yoga postures but I evaluated it based on using it as a platform for transformation, for growing my soul.
And as to me "blaming Julia Siverl . . . for her death" I must admit I am a bit defensive about that comment. I don't really recall making such blame. I was merely pointing out that a tragic death and suit that follows does not diminiish the mission or sully the intentions of Dahn. This stuff happens. Death happens. People sue over it.
And as to the accusations of Lee's criminality. I would say then prosecute him. I just don't see Lee as figuring so prominently as you say into what I do at Dahn on a daily basis. He just doesn't matter that much as far as evaluating the daily practice. What I have "learned" from Lee is small in comparison of what I have learned from myself in taking the Dahn journey. I admit that at any in point in time if I have prepaid some amount for an upcoming training and Lee was arrested and thrown in jail and the whole thing collapsed I would lose my prepaid amount and that would hurt to some small extent depending on the amount but I don't see how I could be "hurt" by all of this. The daily practice is what it is, the benefits are there, my friends and fellow practitioners are there at the center, we practice together and enjoy each others energy and I am grateful for that. And I would miss it and have anger at Lee if his misdeeds caused it to evaporate. |
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| I left Dahn Yoga recently after training with this organization for about 6 months. I was one of those "lucky" few who were chosen to meet ilchi lee. I must say that had I not had the "opportunity " to meet ilchi lee I would probably still be involved with Dahn Yoga. you see I was unable to clearly see ilchi lee - (some ones head was blocking my view) so I was forced to listen and observe the others near and around him. Had this not occured I may have not 'seen' what I should have understood long ago about this organization.
D - your assesmanet of this man I find to be complete fantasy. "I have been at four events where he showed up and I found him to be quite a simple man with not a lot of pretense, who doesn't appear to take himslef that seriously at all - he is actually very humorous in his delivery style. But no sense of him expecting adoration or anything close."
Did you not notice the Masters running to do his every bidding- real or imagined ? How they would not look this man in the eye- and bowed and scraped to him in any exchange that was required- they tried to anticipate his every need and would run over - not looking at him, with hands raised, body bent to offer him what ever item they thought he may require. How every thing was done for him ? From the lifting of a tea cup to the turning on of a microphone ?
IT is more than adoration that he expects, he requires more - adulation, and complete obedience are among two of the things that come to my mind. Sir, stop intellectualizing and open your eyes.
I honestly don't know how you can still defend this organization. From the simple fact that he is not a doctor to the false advertising he and his company perpetrate. "yoga, Tai chi, BR, and the institutions and research behind them. The organization lies and manipulates and has done so since it's inception. Those are the facts. Clearly researchable and well documented.
After healer school when I was questioning the need to memorize the chun bu kyung I was told "You have your bible (western culture in general) and we have our Chun Bu Kyung." This IS a religion.
You say they are helping you - initially they helped me too, but that does not and CANNOT exscuse all those that they have hurt. I for one will no longer give my money to an organization that is based on lies. Remember, where there's smoke, generaly there IS fire. |
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| Suede - 2006-05-07 1:51 PM
D - your assesmanet of this man I find to be complete fantasy. "I have been at four events where he showed up and I found him to be quite a simple man with not a lot of pretense, who doesn't appear to take himslef that seriously at all - he is actually very humorous in his delivery style. But no sense of him expecting adoration or anything close."
Did you not notice the Masters running to do his every bidding- real or imagined ? How they would not look this man in the eye- and bowed and scraped to him in any exchange that was required- they tried to anticipate his every need and would run over - not looking at him, with hands raised, body bent to offer him what ever item they thought he may require. How every thing was done for him ? From the lifting of a tea cup to the turning on of a microphone ?
IT is more than adoration that he expects, he requires more - adulation, and complete obedience are among two of the things that come to my mind. Sir, stop intellectualizing and open your eyes.
Hi there. I joined this forum to post something. I actually came across this thread while searching for "chun bu kyung" on the internet but have been able to find nothing about it besides through dahnhak related info. The Chun-Bu-Kyung is actually rooted in Korean shamanism (mudang). Anyways, I just wanted to say that I used to be a hardcore dahn member for about 3 years. I met my wife while volunteering at the Sedona retreat center. It's been 5 years since we left the organization but I still do daily bowing practice. I am ever grateful for the discipline that Dahnhak inspired in me. By the way , it has NEVER had anything to do with Il Chi Lee. You think Il Chi Lee is brainwashing people to do his bidding? I don't think so... but he is more of a businessman than a spiritual leader if you ask me. If you don't like the Dahn world, then get out of it. It's just another one of the infinite lokas :D
PS, I now do SUdarshan Kriya from the Art of Living tradition and am very happy with it. It is worlds apart from the Dahn Hak world. Here is a picture from the Millennium World Peace SUmmit in 2000 in which both Il Chi Lee and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (of the ARt of Living) are pictured. Sri Sri is the one holding the handles of the wheelcheer and Il Chi is the white-haired Korean in the center.
Edited by geoffree 2008-01-23 9:07 PM
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Dahn Yoga
