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I signed up for Dahn Yoga two months ago (in NYC) and love it. However, after reading all the negative comments posted on this site and also Rick Ross's, I am concerned. It is true that their classes are very expensive and the instructors are young and personable but rather pushy and "Dr." Ilchi Lee's books somewhat simplistic, it never occurred to me that behind it all lurks a cultish organization.
I would like to expand on this debate a little more and hear as many people as possible before passing on a judgment. In the meantime, I am not going anywhere except to classes in New York City 
BTW at the center where I go, I have met people who have been doing it for 6 or 7 years and they seemed OK to me. They were there because they felt better and healthier.
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| Hi there,
If you feel that you can be somewhat objective about the process, use Steve Hassan's BITE model to analyze your group for destructive mind control. His website is www.freedomofmind.com.
Keep in mind that no mind control group is up-front or obvious about what kind of commitment they really want from you. In fact, people in those types of group don't even recognize they may be under undue influence. The group sucks you in in a very gradual, slow process, introducing little bits of its beliefs and then waiting for you to digest the information. If you are receptive, then they will push a little more. For example, how many people would join the Jehovah's Witnesses if they told you up front they did not believe in education past high school (except now for male elders who have to "keep up") or that you shouldn't read anything but publications from the group, i.e. The WatchTower? Many times, it is believed that outright falsification or lying is justified to "save souls" and build membership. Be careful. There are many types of yoga out there to be involved in. Why even risk the head trip . . .
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| Thanks, the site you gave me is very helpful |
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| they seem pretty friendly here in Atlanta,
the prices are about average --compared to other small yoga/pilates studios, but they do also push extra workshops/
What I don't mind is the cost of what the workshops are, but if the teachers aren't getting the money, that would indicate a cultish situation,.... if the instructors aren't getting at least $35 an hour, then I feel as if they are being severely brainwashed to work at these studios. |
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| Absolutely, most of the teachers I have seen so far are young and idealistic. Easy targets to be brainwashed. However in my Center, the age group of students is varied...young to old...20's to late 60's. I have noticed that the teachers are very attentive, friendly and eager to pleasse. I have also noticed that at times, they do push you to sign up for extra classes. But doesn't that happen every where? You go to a gym, they push you to sign up for personal training...
At this point I would like to do more research before I jump to conclusions. So let me know about your experiences. |
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| > if the instructors aren't getting at least $35 an hour, then I feel as if they are being severely brainwashed to work at these studios.
The master's salary in the US is 22K. Given the fact that they get no weekends, and are at the center the whole day, they p;robably work about 80 hours a week.
If you do the math, that comes to $5.5 per hour.
They work for an idea, that is obvious. However, if they get disillusioned at some point, it is very hard for them to leave.
They loose contact with their family, they don't know anybody outside Dahn, they have no money, so where would they go?
Korean masters are in the US on visas, so if they quit Dahn they also have to go back to Korea, and start their lives over there. |
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| > BTW at the center where I go, I have met people who have been doing it for 6 or 7 years and they seemed OK to me. They were there because they felt better and healthier.
I was curious to meet people who were doing Dahn yoga for a long time and see what their experiences were. Unfortunately, there are none in our center. Our center has a "revolving door". Every month it seems 50% of people left and 50% of people are new.
So, these people who were in the center for a long time, do they just come for excercies, or they also go to workshops, healing sessions, or are healers themselves? I am using the terms "healers" loosely, I mean they went to Sedona for the healers training?
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I have done yoga before, years ago, and I would call it "yoga-lite". I am very new at Dahn, but I have researched a lot and met other members and gossipped.
Everyone in the class 11 of us) seemed totally normal in every way. There were 2 black ladies, the rest were white, and only 3 men , all ranging in age from 30 - 55 years old. Everyone seemed middle to upper middle class economically speaking, our instructor too... although she doesn't get paid much, she has a rich husband I guess, and she is local, and been at it for 4 years.
The two masters are around 45 years old and Korean, and on visas and all live in an apartment and sleep on mats. I guess that is why they don't get paid much, their housing is all paid for, and their once or twice a year travel to Korea and/or Sedona is paid for ... maybe the better their center is at getting members and selling workshops, the more promoted they get and more travel and choices to work at different centers across the world...
I think someone could have a cool career there, if they REALLY believed in it and if they were single. None of the full-time, high-level people seem to have kids or spouses. and they are usually not American, only Korean.
I haven't met any Americans who have been at it more than 5 years. most stick with it from 6 months to 2 years. |
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| "I think someone could have a cool career there, if they REALLY believed in it and if they were single." I believe they are single and without families because they have been "persuaded" (some call it "brainwashed") to devote ALL of their time and energy to Ilchi Lee, their "god," and Lee's goals, believing they are working toward world peace. Korean masters live on an allowance (I heard $200/mth) and must pay for many out-of-pocket expenses, even if simple housing is provided. They are "persuaded" to give up all material attachments. Meanwhile, Lee has a family and is quite wealthy and has been arrested for lasciviousness and accused of sexually exploiting hundreds of female masters. Nice career? That's what Julia Siverls thought too. She died in master training. Search Google on key words dahn and cult, and read all. |
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| So, these people who were in the center for a long time, do they just come for excercies, or they also go to workshops, healing sessions, or are healers themselves? I am using the terms "healers" loosely, I mean they went to Sedona for the healers training?
Some of them have been to Sedona or to local workshops but none of them are healers or masters. Most of them have been practicing it in at the local center. So their main goal is working out and keeping fit and feeling good while doing it. There were a group of young people who recently came back from Yeha and said that it was a wonderful experience. I asked one or two if they would be interested in becoming masters or healers, they said absolutely not. That they had careers of their own and this helped them be more focused on their jobs.
There seems to be an awful lot of angry feelings involving Dahn, but so far I have not been able to be convinced of anything as there are no facts. Everything that is being said is subjective. Most of the masters I have seen are Korean, but there are also a few Americans.
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| believe they are single and without families because they have been "persuaded" (some call it "brainwashed") to devote ALL of their time and energy to Ilchi Lee, their "god," and Lee's goals, believing they are working toward world peace. Korean masters live on an allowance (I heard $200/mth) and must pay for many out-of-pocket expenses, even if simple housing is provided. They are "persuaded" to give up all material attachments. Meanwhile, Lee has a family and is quite wealthy and has been arrested for lasciviousness and accused of sexually exploiting hundreds of female masters. Nice career? That's what Julia Siverls thought too. She died in master training.
Why do you or people with negative feelings towards Dahn, keep bringing up the tragic story of J. Siverls? Has anyone considered that she may have had a pre-existing condition that contributed to her death? Statistically speaking, this proves nothing. Speaking of which, how many base ball players have had the same faith? The question I have for you or anyone who is full of anger against Dahn..is why? Did you personally have a bad experience? Did someone you know? |
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| Not everyone is targetted to become a "master." There's an abundance of information online about Dahn and Ilchi Lee, some credible and some not, but enough consistent reports and facts to raise bright red flags and to set off alarms. What do you need to read or hear before you consider information to be a "fact" rather than subjective? You can call the Yavapai County police yourself, if you don't believe what you are hearing about Julia Siverls. An autopsy is public information. She reportedly died of hyperthermia/dehydration/exposure and was otherwise a healthy woman. People die yearly in the Arizona desert, but she died TRUSTING Dahn to guide her and provide for her on the hike, trusting them with her life. The summons against Ilchi Lee describes what happened on the hike (found at Rickross's site); you don't have to believe every word of it to get the idea. And one of the hikers was interviewed by the media (article by Shawn Cohen). The master trainees were sent out on a required twenty mile endurance hike, which previous master trainees had reported doing (making it quite believable) in blazing desert heat (you can check the weather report on July 12, 2003 yourself) with backpacks of rocks on their backs, climbing uphill with almost no water or food and no sun protection. If you read "Heaven Within," a fictionalized book written about/for Dahn, you'll see how unquestioning obedience and physical agony are key to Lee's "enlightenment" program, which makes the rocks and the lack of supplies and the psychological pressure quite believable, in my opinion. Why is this death brought up by dahn opponents? Because it very clearly shows strong evidence that Dahn has a very dangerous if not cruel side to it. Healers and health experts? -- Healers don't lead trainees to their death or near-death. Enlightened? -- Not even a basic understanding of how the human body responds to overexertion in high heat and direct sun. Loving and peaceful and caring? They let a woman suffer and die in front of their eyes, after gaining her undying trust and blind obedience. How did she and the other hikers get to that point of blind obedience and trust? Well, Annaseablu, read about cult manipulation and you decide. |
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This is in the New York Post on Sunday September 04,2005.
HOLISTIC HORROR LAWSUIT
By DAVID HAFETZ and PHILIP RECCHIA
Julia Siverls was voracious, racking up advanced degrees in a dogged pursuit of knowledge that eventually led the Queensborough Community College education professor to a fateful spiritual retreat in the Arizona desert.
Dahnhak, a yoga and holistic-health group, offered to make her a master of its discipline if she completed one last test.
But that test cost Siverls, 41, her life, her family charges in an explosive $84 million lawsuit.
The suit calls Dahnhak a cult and alleges that it drugged Siverls, loaded her backpack with 40 pounds of rocks, gave her little food or water, then took her on a hike up Casner Mountain, near Sedona, Ariz.
She collapsed from dehydration and exhaustion in the desert heat but was forced her to go on and died halfway up the mountain on July 12, 2003, the suit says.
"It was total, total neglect," her sister, Veronica Siverls-Dunham, said. "This was a senseless death."
According to police reports obtained by The Post, an off-duty officer spotted the group on the mountain. The officer said Siverls was "hunched over" and had fallen.
An autopsy found the cause of death to be consistent with "acute heat stroke, dehydration and hyperthermia due to environmental exposure," the suit states.
Her family believes her meals at the retreat were laced with marijuana and methadone. A vegan, she never touched drugs, it says.
Siverls-Dunham, a high-school science teacher, called her sister, the youngest of 12 siblings, was the family's "pride and joy."
The suit says Dahnhak "lures" members with free yoga classes, then pressures them to attend pricey classes and retreats. Named as co-defendants are over a dozen allegedly related operations and Dahnhak's Korean leader, "Grand Master" Seung Huen Lee.
Chris Scanlon, a Manhattan lawyer for Mago Earth, one of the defendants, said, "The allegations of wrongful death are baloney."
A Dahnhak spokeswoman said neither Lee nor any other official could be reached for comment.
Seung Huen Lee, who also goes by the name Ilchi Lee, calls himself an "educational philosopher and world-peace leader" on a Web site that claims that Dahnhak teaches "the study of energy and how to use it to achieve mastery of mind and body and illumination of the spirit."
Dahnhak, based in Sedona, operates 50 centers in the U.S. and many more worldwide, according to the suit. There are at least 13 centers in New York, including locations on Sixth Avenue and a Dahn Yoga in Brooklyn Heights.
Arizona police say that the Siverls case is still open but that it's unlikely anyone will be charged.
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Dahn yoga or don't yoga
