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| Living as a yoga instructor in Las Vegas, it's kind of hard to make a living purely as an instructor, since most places only offer part-time work, with only the option to teach one or just a few classes a week. So when I saw a flyer advertising full-time work at this place that teaches "Dahn Yoga," I immediately called and inquired about employment (as the few people who make a living off of yoga full time in this town are studio owners, which I am not). The studio asked me to come in, but first they requested that before I decided to work there, and before I get an audition, I should participate in a class because they said what they do is probably very different from anything I've ever experienced.
Anyway, I go in thinking that this place would have no reservations about hiring me since I've been practicing and studying yoga my whole life, and know a lot about many different styles, so I think it's no problem. When I took my first Dahn class, I was totally thrown for a loop! It was different than any type of yoga class I've ever been to. In fact, it was so different I guarantee you some people would not consider it yoga. Not only were there postures that I was very familiar with, Qi Gong, Tai Chi, and this practice called "Brain Respiration," lots of energy work, as well as dancing, jumping, and cheering were thrown in. In addition, I learned how to count to 10 in Korean (no Sanskrit was used!).
It was an awesome class, don't get me wrong, I had lots of fun and I got a lot out of the class, but WOW! I've never done anything like it. It was amazing yet strange at the same time. I loved it, and I would love to work there, but I know I need a lot more experience, training, and studying before I become a teacher there. They agreed with me and liked the way my resumé looked, so they hired me on the condition that I train more, study more, and gain more experience in their program.
Anyhoo: Does anyone know anything about Dahn yoga? Has anyone had a lot of experience in practicing it? If so, please enlighten me--I know a little from the few days that I've studied there--but please share more info as I'd like to learn as much as possible. Those of you who know of it, heard of it, but haven't had much experience (but some experience) with it, what do you think?
Any and all input would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Namasté!
Edited by itchytummy 2005-03-29 12:00 PM
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Moderator
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Location: San Antonio, Republic of Texas USA | Sounds like a lot of fun Rachelle! While I can't expound on Dahn Yoga, it's good to see you back. |
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| There is a big Dahn Yoga center here in NYC. I haven't gotten the chutzpah to go there and try it yet. I heard a few similar descriptions of it from a couple of people. Sounds like I would either hate it or love it. Undoubtedly there would probably be something I could steal to teach in my classes. When I do get up the gumption, I'll tell you all about it. I can already count to 10 in Korean so I'll have a head start.
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| Thanks for the welcome back Bruce. I was gone for a little while because I was in a car accident. Since I don't have a computer at home, and it's a drive to the computer lab, it was hard making it to a computer with no car, and I needed some time to recover from some injuries. No worries though, I'm okay! I'm healed and I got a new set of wheels that I love.
Edited by itchytummy 2005-03-29 12:43 PM
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Location: San Antonio, Republic of Texas USA | Glad you're OK kiddo. What kind of car? I love car talk  |
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| be careful.
Do a web search for "Dahn yoga" and "cult" and see what you find.
i have two friends who did dahn yoga for about a year before quitting. one friend, aria, remembers doing the excercises in the final weeks before she quit, & having something like reiki done to her during meditation. while she was is a kind of very relaxed, "yoga high" kind of state, she was assisted to her feet and whisked off to a seperate room, where a teacher told her what amazing progress she was making. then she told aria in order to continue to progress to her full potential as an "earth human" she needed to go to a series of classes and workshops, which would have cost her a couple thousand dollars. when my friend balked, she recieved about 20minutes of high pressure pitching from this person, verging on emotional manipulation. when the teacher finally backed off, aria left and never returned. my other friend actually shelled out the money & went to her first workshop, where she had a chance to talk to some of the korean yoga teachers there- and learned that most of them , at a certain point were pressured by the organization to leave their families, and live exclusively inthe service of the dahn center . you are also encouraged to live only with other dahn center students/teachers. apparently these teachers were discouraged from having relationships- even friendships- and where moved around by the centers from state to state every few months by the center. she also learned at certain point, all "serious students" encouraged/expected to donate a percentage of your paycheck to the dahn center. amongst other interesting dahn lifestyle ideals.
this was in boston, perhaps things are different where you are. but i'd ask the longer term students there what their experiences have been before signing on to teach there.
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| Many personal experiences can be found here:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/dti.html
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2415
Location: A Blue State |
I want to underline what Tasha wrote. I met some college girls who were
in a "yoga club", and in the course of our short conversation I heard enough
things that raised red flags that I spent some time searching this club online.
It didn't take long to find out that it was not a club at all, but an arm of the
Dahn Yoga organization reaching into campuses. The tactics that Tasha
describes are CLASSIC cultism. Stay Away.
If you want to have some of the same fun, try DancKinetics from Kripalu.
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| welcome back itchy! sorry to hear about the accident - i hope you are feeling much better 
i had a new student last week who travelled from another city to attend my class. she was told by her japanese co-workers to "be careful" as it seems some cults in japan are using the designation "yoga teacher" to recruit new disciples 
bummer for a the legit teachers and a real bummer for the unsuspecting students! |
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| Thanks for the heads up guys. So, far I haven't paid a single cent for anything other than some change for parking meters. The people who work at the center where I've been going have been very friendly, and I don't feel any negative energy from them. They're even paying for a training trip for me to go to Sedona, Arizona, and haven't asked me to leave my family, friends, or boyfried for so that I can work for them. But knowing that there have been people who have had sour tastes in their mouths from their Dahn experiences, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for any shady things that may pop up.
So far, all my experiences have been good, and I find the practice that I've been doing with Dahn to be very cleansing, relaxing, and cathartic. I hope nothing goes downhill as time goes on. It very well might be with as many centers (about 400) as Dahn has worldwide, it's very likely that there are some centers with questionable ethics, as is the case with regular yoga studios too.
Thanks for the concern, I'll definitely be cautious (no brush-offs, I swear!) and will take all your thoughts into consideration. Much love to y'all. |
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| ...And as for Bruce's question, I originally was gunning for a Honda Civic Hybrid since it gets 650 miles to the gas tank (because gas prices are getting ridiculous!), it's environmentally friendly (which makes it Rachelle friendly), and because of the $2,000 tax rebate you get when you buy one new. But alas, as a recent college grad with limited funds, it was out of my price range. But I found what I believe to be a nice compromise considering someone in my situation--a regular Honda Civic. I figure once I have more time to build my finances up more, I can get my dream car in the future (either that or submit a video tape to MTV of one of the 2 clunkers I currently have in my driveway, and have them "Pimp My Ride!").
I love my new car. It's colour is called "Magnesium Metallic," it's fresh from the showroom floor, and while the mileage isn't as good as the hybrid I was eyeing, it's still pretty decent compared to other cars such as your run-of-the-mill SUV (BTW, check out www.esuvee.com, it's fun!) or a Hummer. Plus, it's practical, I know it'll retain it's resale value more than many other cars on the market, and it's from a reliable manufacturer. Overall, I'm quite satisfied with my purchase. Also, most importantly, I have wheels again, which makes me happyyyyyyy!. No more smelly, crowded, dirty buses for this chica (knock on wood)!
Edited by itchytummy 2005-03-30 12:05 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2415
Location: A Blue State | itchytummy - 2005-03-30 11:50 AM
.... They're even paying for a training trip for me to go to Sedona, Arizona, ...
Thanks for the concern, I'll definitely be cautious (no brush-offs, I swear!) and will take all your thoughts into consideration. Much love to y'all.
Now you are really scaring me. Do you know where you'll be in Sedona, how you will
leave if you need to, how your friends and family can contact you there? Etc.
I did the experiment that Tasha suggested with "Dahn yoga" and cult in Google
and there's quite a lot that turns up. One link I found refers SPECIFICALLY to
the Las Vegas Dahn center AND the Sedona place:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dtivisitor.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dti12.html
I've seen people taken in by such organizations, and I helped pull one
friend out of such a thing, so I can only say that I hope you will not have problems.
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well, what can i say? good luck, itchytummy! ( congrats on your car, by the way)
i'd love to hear about what you experience while you are there. my friends aria and nicole loved the folks they met through dahn yoga. ( with the exception of the pushy teacher)all seekers, very kind and welcoming- all looking for physical and emotional health & vibrancy. be careful anyway.
nicole, told me one of her old dahn friends is moving to sedona to keep an watchful eye on her sister, another dahn student. apparently she's worried about how deeply immersed and isolated from family she's become. this has taken agood three years. in an organization like dahn, no one is going to go "boo! we're scary!" you'll be watched to see how good a fit you make for incremental exposure to certain "levels" of the program.
I hope you're asking lots of questions @ your center about things you've heard here & are getting real answers. this is not a situation where you want to ride on vibes or faith.
peace,
Tasha
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| Wow, this is an interesting thread! The reason I'm especially intrigued is because over the last couple of weeks I have found Dahn yoga popping into my head at random times. It's not that strange - really - I pass a center a couple times a week (as I have for a couple of years, it's NOT a new thing). But every time the name crosses my mind I've gotten sort of creeped out and whenever I pass it I find myself crossing to the otehr side of the street even to avoid walking by the door. What's that about???
Rachelle - good luck if this is what you want and feel comfortable with. Please be careful, though!
The Sedona issue really raised a red flag with me, as well - it just sounds really shady. I personally wouldn't go, but if you do, please be careful and follow BG's advice about having a definite plan! |
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| I went through not only the Dahn Yoga, on the Sites Bad Guy recommended, but reviewed other cults, listed there as well. He listed the problems with Integral Yoga, Kripalu, and Ananda, which are well known, but others like Legionaires of Christ, Opus Dei, Unification Church, and a couple of others. (Work was very slow yesterday.)
Often he would bring in positive as well as negative articles, accusations as well as rebuttals, and seems to have attempted to use more objective news sources as well as testemonials. So while he may have an attitude about certain things, he seems to have backed it up fairly well.
But I would have to say that the Dahn section is one of the most negative. They seem to have an almost scientology approach with the need to part a customer from his money. It was good to do the research, but Personally I will avoid them. Not due to their initial workouts, but for what they want you to do later.
If you go to a workshop in Sedona, Make sure you drive that new car there so if you need to you can freely leave. |
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hey itchytummy...
are you still doing Dahn?
Did you go to Arizona?
what's the latest??
blessings,
miss dee |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2415
Location: A Blue State | Yeah, Itchytummy, what's up? We are thinking of you.
Edited by Bay Guy 2005-04-06 9:39 PM
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| I'm back--access to a computer has been limited for me, so I'll be popping in and out of the forums periodically.
No I haven't gone to Arizona. That's from the 14th-18th of this month. I know quite a few people who have gone to Arizona and have made it back successfully. BTW, there is more than one Dahn Center in Las Vegas. I'm at the one in the East side. I've met one person at the one in the West, and I didn't know what to think of him. But all the people at the one I'm at seem to be a'ight (for those of you who don't know ebonics, this translates to all right).
I've had real life experience with cults and know what I'm dealing with. I'm pretty confident the center I'm at isn't a cult (if by cult your definition is crazy people trying to suck you up into a brainwashing organization). Keeping in mind what was said in this forum, I brought one of my buddies (who has had experience with cults too) to check the place and the people out, and he said that the people seem pretty harmless to him. He said, "That place isn't what I would call a traditional yoga center...more like a karate school."
I don't think you have to worry about me, but thanks for the concern.
Edited by itchytummy 2005-04-10 10:25 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8292
| Good to hear from you itchy! Just keep your eyes open and your bs detector operating at peak efficiency  |
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great to hear from you!
do be careful...
blessings,
dee |
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| Hello!
I wanted to offer my two cents regarding Dahn yoga because I have been practicing for over four years. First of all, I wanted to respond to the notion that it is a cult. I suppose this all depends what your definition of a cult is. For some people, any spiritual movement outside of the major religions is labeled as a "cult." Since Dahn is a rapidly growing spiritual movement, it is bound to be viewed with such suspision. I think the more important question is, "Is it dangerous?" Again, this may depend on perspective.
Dahn is definitely about growth of consciousness. That means cutting the ego and learning to cultivate genuine love for fellow human beings. In the West, we tend to view personal growth in a very touchy-feely way, and therefore we never really confront the pride, attachments, and preconceptions that hold us back from true enlightenment. Dahn is unique in its willingness to challenge practitioners in ways that may make them uncomfortable. However, personal choice is always available. Noone is ever cooerced to do anything. I am certain that our freind Itchy is perfectly safe. She will undoubtedly be challenged, but she is surrounded by people that care for her. I know the Sedona masters who will be training her on this trip, and I can say with certainty that these are some of the most highly developed people I have ever met.
Also in regard to the Rick Ross website. Please consider a couple of things:
1) The Ross ONLY allows negative postings regarding a group. All the thousands of people that have had wonderful experiences have no voice there.
2) Rick Ross has a definite Christian fundamentalist agenda. Please notice that just about any non-traditional or alternative group is listed there (including non-traditional Christian groups).
I can sympathize with the people who have left Dahnhak with anger in their heart. In Dahnhak, like in any organization, things happen that kindle the emotions. I, too, have been made uncomforable and even angry over and over again in my training. Ultimately, I think these people missed a change to move beyond petty emotions and really grow. And, about money--yes, they do charge a lot and the organization has a definite business aspect. Their plan is to have centers all over the US, and that simply requires money. In my opinion, the training they provide is truly priceless, if taken sincerely and with open mind.
So, Itchy, please enjoy your Sedona training. Throw yourself into it without resevation. That is the way to grow, and that is the way to live.
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| Chunjijedi says: "Throw yourself into it without resevation. That is the way to grow, and that is the way to live."
BAD advice, especially after all that has been shared here to try to help someone from walking head on into a (another) cult. 
You yourself sound brainwashed by Dahn. You recommend to this person here that she close her eyes and not think, not listen to the reports -- how very Dahn of you to advise her like that. You blow-off Rick Ross as if he has some kind of ax to grind. First of all, Rick Ross is Jewish, so I doubt he'd be listing cult warnings with a hidden fundamentalist Christian motive.
How do you explain Julia Siverl's death at a Dahn training in Sedona? A death that no one would even know about if not for Rick Ross! Shouldn't a fully "enlightened" being like Ilchi Lee and his "enlightened" masters be able to keep everyone alive, at least, during their training programs?
itchytummy, from what I have read and heard, Dahn is about devotion to one thing -- making money for Ilchi Lee. If you need a job and want to teach yoga, consider that teaching yoga doesn't require a $40,000 investment in education like Dahn's instructors usually end up eventually paying, yoga doesn't require becoming someone else, a "new human." Yoga doesn't create master sycophants doing a thousand bows a day to Ilchi Lee, giving up families and careers to work 80-100 hours a day with no overtime and no benefits. Yoga training isn't about punitive push-ups and frightening exercises, exercising to the point of exhaustion or injury or dehydration or even death, or giving up your material life so that someone else can get rich on property investments (check the Arizona property records) and homes.
No, of course this is not everyone's experience at Dahn, and maybe not even most people's experience. Many people love it and swear by it. But most aren't targetted. Only the most vulnerable and susceptible will remain after the many levels of filtering they put trainees through.
I say read the reports on Rick Ross on his visitors page about Dahn,and then read them again, and ask yourself why you don't appreciate the pain that these people are willing to share to try to help others not to go through the same suffering. Join his discussion board and invite input from people there before going any farther.
The law won't easily defend you if you get hurt or lose all. It's a "buyer beware" situation. You are expected to think for yourself and make wise purchasing decisions. You wouldn't buy a box of cereal that had as many warnings posted on the Interent as Dahn has.
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| oops, I meant to say 80-100 hours per week, not day.
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| Oh, brother. Thanks for informing me that I am brainwashed! Whatever whould I do without you? Strange how one can go on living a normal life and maintaining a professional career, all while being a member of a brainwashing cult.
Looking at your post, Lovelife, I think you are the brainwashed one. Why don't you do a quick seach for the name "Rick Ross"? What are his qualifications? How does he personally benefit from become a self-appointed "cult expert"? You'll quickly discover that he has no education beyond highschool and no sociological or psychological training. Why doesn't it bother you that he doesn't allow opposing viewpoints? Why are you so gullible, Lovelife? It's really unfair of you to cut down Itchy's experiences based on these hate-mongering web-sites.
Dahn simply is NOT about "making money for Ilchi Lee." I know that because I can see what they do with the money. It is also NOT dangerous, except perhaps to those who would like human society to keep on its present course of violence and environmental irresponsibility. I don't know the particulars of that one death, but I know that is the only death I've heard of in four years. Literally hundreds of thousands of people have taken training training in Sedona, and this is the only serious incident I've heard of. Disneyland has had a far worse track record in the last few years than that. Much of the training in Sedona is outdoors, including some hiking on the red rock formations. It's natural to expect that something unfortunate might happen in any sort of outdoor environment. I used to work at a Park Ranger, and something happened literally every weekend. Is the National Forest Service also a "dangerous organization"? I have taken training twelve times in Sedona, and I have not recieved so much as a sprained ankle!
Well, I have to go, but I have more to say! I'm ready for your reply! My "brainwashed" brain vs. yours! |
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| The subject here isn't Rick Ross, it's Ilchi Lee and his Dahn programs. You're blaming the messenger. For one thing, Rick Ross didn't write all those articles and comments on his website, ex-Dahn members and their families and friends did. There are bulletin boards on the Internet and websites with some stories also, not just Rick Ross's. He doesn't have to provide positive reports because that's not his mission. His mission is to provide concerning information and reports that the trusting public might not easily see otherwise. He knows and shares a lot about cults and controversial organizations and he has definitely saved lives.
Since you seem to be comparing Rick Ross to Ilchi Lee and see him as less credible than Ilchi Lee, let's give it a go and compare on some points that you mentioned.
As far as Rick Ross not having a degree, he doesn't say he has a degree and he gives his complete history and his experience at his website showing what qualifies him as an expert in his subject. You can read his complete bio here. He seems painfully honest. http://www.rickross.com/biography.html Also he doesn't call himself "Dr. Ross."
On the other hand, Ilchi Lee does call himself "Dr.Lee," and if you can find his true educational credentials listed at his websites, please link to it here; I can't find them. Dahn Centers perform physical exams on people's bodies and even call themselves a clinic and they say they can diagnose internal organ health. What medical degrees qualify Ilchi Lee and Dahn masters to do medical diagnosis? (I once asked a Dahn Center master this question and he blithered.)
For comparison's sake, since you brought it up, here's the Rick Ross Institute's advisory board's extremely impressive qualifications for the work they do: http://www.rickross.com/advisory.html
Now, does Ilchi Lee post the names and qualifications of people on the boards of their many companies and non-profits?
It doesn't matter if someone can provide a trillion favorable testimonials. At issue are the cases of suffering and loss and even a death that would go unnoticed if people didn't speak out. Where could they go to speak out if not for Rick Ross's website?
Hey, maybe I just expect more from fully enlightened leaders and experts in healing and health than I do from park rangers or Disneyland (and I see some postings warning about Disneyland's safety record) to design programs where someone does not die in training. Julia died of dehydration and hyperthermia and exposure (public record). Would you design an outdoor program like that, even as a unenlightened park ranger?
Maybe I value one human life more than a trillion satisfied Dahn customers. Because you only heard of one death and no injuries does not mean they don't happen. Would you have known about Julia's death if you hadn't heard about it here or on Rick Ross?
Please do tell us what they are doing with the money -- millions of dollars (billions?), with very little spent on staff or marketing because people work for free, charging tens of thousands of dollars for training programs, charging hundreds or thousands of dollars in non-refundable fees to new members, their profitable investments, etc.
That's all for now.
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Dahn Yoga Experience
Yoga -> General Yoga
